Episode 60: Merilee Smith making magic happen

Episode 60: Coffee and Contemplation with Susan Dunlop podcast interview with Merilee Smith – from the seven-year-old girl with a vision to work at Disney to the woman who makes magic happen.

Susan: Welcome to Episode 60 of Coffee and Contemplation with Susan. Hello, I’m Susan Dunlop, a professional coach and 3 Vital Questions facilitator living in Noosa, Australia. If this is the first time you’ve joined me, welcome and if you’ve been tuned in before, thank you for coming back.

People passionate about what they deliver to the world intrigue me and make me want to know what, how, and why they do what they do. I choose to surround myself with people who set magnificent visions, take risks to do good things in service of others, and are kindhearted, purposeful and wise. In service or in the books they’ve written, they change lives, including their own.

Guests joining me on the Coffee and Contemplation Podcast are invited to share their personal stories with vulnerability for the benefit of others, and are people with either or both professional and experiential knowledge of the theme of each episode.

Today’s guest is one of the most enthusiastic, energised, ever-creating, innovative and kind people I’ve had the pleasure to get to know in Covid times. I met Merilee in 2021 through our work as 3 Vital Questions facilitators with the Center for the Empowerment Dynamic in the United States.

Merilee’s Irish eyes smile, and she lights up our Zoom sessions across the globe, as co-chair of the Community of Practice gatherings. Oh, and she’s a woman who not only talks fast, but she gets sh*t done fast too, that, and sets an example of professionalism, courtesy, and respectfulness at the same time.

I found when I opted into a planning committee for our annual summit last year, that it was not only Merilee who gets the sh*t done, she puts the commit in committee. We all rose up and we all committed, and it resulted in a mutual creation of a truly inspiring and empowering event.

Merilee Smith from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, welcome!

Merilee: Hello, Susan Dunlop. I’m so excited and honored to be here with you today. So thank you so much for having me.

Susan: I’m looking forward to having our chat. You and I have tried to do this before Christmas when I wasn’t well, and then you had other commitments. So now we’re finally coming around and that made you episode 60.

Merilee: Love it.

Susan: So I was thinking Merilee, that we’ll get the conversation flowing if you’re okay with this plan. I feel we need to begin with the talk about you and Mary Poppins?

Merilee: Let’s do it.

Susan: Listeners, on the back wall of Merilee’s office, which I’m looking at right now, and it’s a room I’ve seen many times in Zoom, there’s a painting of Mary Poppins, her umbrella up as she floats across the sky, and we’re both not quite sure whether it’s sunset or sunrise, however, she’s flying in dark silhouette and alongside or shadowing her there’s a larger cloud shaped version of Mary Poppins. I love it, but I’ve never asked Merilee yet why has she got that behind her. Anyone who has a picture of Mary Poppins, that obviously means something to her.

What is it that you appreciate about the Mary Poppins character Merilee?

Merilee: First of all, I am a coach, much like you, Susan, and so I’m deeply passionate about helping people to truly shine as their best selves. And so when I decided to put my happy space, my office, together here, I really decided to decorate it with things and people that have inspired me throughout my journey.

Mary Poppins has certainly been one of them.

So it’s very much similar to how I see myself in my role as a coach and a challenger and a creator and so that’s just why I love her deeply. That’s pretty much the story behind it.

I even did a post on this probably about a year and a half ago, because I just thought, people probably wonder when they see me. I was doing a lot of live videos and was like, what’s the story of that picture on the wall. So I love that you asked me about that.

Susan: I love anything to do with the magical side of things. There’s a book I found by Lucy Cavendish. Magickal Fairy Tales she wrote for adults to say, you know what, look back at those fairy tales and here’s what they’re really about. It’s quite a beautiful thing to put that adult understanding into it.

When did it come to you? When did you see that she was that?

Merilee: I think as I really realized that I had a passion for growing and developing people, and helping people. Gosh, probably about 25 years ago in my first People leader role, and coincidentally that was actually at Disney, and I just knew that I wanted to be able to be like her.

I wanted to be able to come across raw and real and help shine the light and challenge people, but from a loving way. I’m not even sure when that came through to me that she was just this person that I wanted to be.

When I worked with organizations, so I do individual coaching, but I also work with organizations, and several years ago, I thought it’s almost like you work yourself out of a job in some respect. But you get to a point, and I remember I was working with this client and I worked with them for, oh, probably about three or four years and I taught them our 3 Vital Questions work, and they really embraced it.

And it got to a point where I felt like they were leaning on me as a crutch. And I looked at the CEO one day, and she looked at me, and I said, you know what? I don’t think you guys need me anymore, and she agreed. It was a really good end of the chapter, and then I moved on to the next organization and the next client, and so I think it just organically came to me.

Susan: There definitely comes a time, doesn’t there? I know that feeling too, when you realize that the coaching journey is over. And I’ve seen that myself when I’ve had coaches that I’ve thought, you know what, I’m good now. All I am doing is leaning on you as a crutch and I do need to now step up and take ownership of what I said I was going to work towards and it feels so good when you’ve done that.

Merilee: Then sometimes they will come back and they’ll just need that little bit of a boost but not for long. And that to me that’s truly why I do what I do and why it’s just so rewarding.

Susan: I was going to tell you too, before we move on, did you know that the creator of Mary Poppins was born here in Australia?

Merilee: I did know that.

Susan: That’s only 90 minutes north of where I live in Maryborough. I was wondering whether they called Maryborough after her, but they didn’t, and her father was the bank manager there. So yes, you can see where some of the connection is for her.

Merilee: Yes, I did know that and I didn’t realize that you were so close.

Susan: So I was thinking maybe what we’ll do, seeing we’re talking about that side of life.

When you were a child, did you have a dream job you saw yourself in as an adult, and how did that work out for you?

Merilee: I did, and I’ll keep with the theme here. So the first time I actually went to Disney World I was seven, and I think like probably with many kids I thought oh my gosh, I want to work there.

But I truly in my heart just always knew that was something that I wanted to do, that I wanted to work there. And it was more of that even deeper vision and why, for me, even at a young age, wanting to create happy experiences for people where they could forget their worries and the drama of sometimes our beautiful but yet chaotic and dark world and just be them. Just be their true selves. Just be their true, happy selves. And so with that said, I was really determined to make this a reality.

When I was in high school, I thought, Ooh, maybe I want to be an animator. So I wrote a letter to the animation department. I asked what schools do you recruit animators from?

Then they sent me a letter back and I was excited. I toured a couple of schools and then I realized, probably art school wasn’t really truly what I wanted to do. When I was in my freshman year of college, I was going for business management. I had grown up working at my dad’s pharmacy, which is a retail store, an independent community pharmacy, and there was a Pharmacy convention.

So we went with my dad, and we got a little tour behind the scenes of Disney, and the woman that did the tour had mentioned this program called the College Program. I thought, what is that? I’m in college. I could do that. So I literally walked into the casting building there in Orlando at Disney World. I walked up and I asked how could I do that? How could I work here in college? They gave me information. I went back, I applied for it. I worked there two summers in college and then became a people leader for them after I graduated at the age of 23.

As I mentioned before, that was truly when I realized how much I loved training and developing and coaching people. So I would definitely not be here today if it wasn’t for all of that.

Susan: You made that happen. Goodness me. That’s a very young age for you to have seen that vision and kept moving towards it.

Merilee: In my first summer, I was like, Woohoo, I’m working at Disney. I worked in fast food at one of the fast food restaurants at Epcot, and I was in the kitchen for the first ten weeks flipping burgers and fries. So I was like, okay, I’m still creating magic in some way, shape or form by doing what I’m doing.

I worked with some amazing people in that role, and so that’s truly where I started.

Susan: When you’re working with people, it’s always good to have actually worked at the jobs that they’ve also done before too. That’s a good lesson learned.

In terms of that, you’re talking about the chaotic world and people stepping outside of that and turning up to Disney and just being themselves.

Did you go through any personal hurdles in your life that you’ve had to leap over? How did you ever overcome those if you did have any?

Merilee: The biggest thing that comes to mind is what I would coin or call my inner gremlin. It’s that inner critic, that inner message that we all have within us in some way, shape, or form. Definitely that message of not being smart, good, or valuable enough and specifically because I wasn’t the perfect student. I wasn’t the student who studied hard, I certainly didn’t get straight A’s. I was definitely much more a person who liked the social aspect of it – you can tell – and I had a brother who was a straight A student and definitely I took on that self judgment at an early age, at a subconscious level, not even realizing it.

Even when I got my first management role with Disney, down deep, I never really felt like I actually deserved it, because it’s that, you know that belief that we have to hustle, we have to work hard to get what we want. Even though I just told you like, I did this, then I did this, I really wanted to get that job, but I couldn’t see that.

Then in 2002, I decided to go back and get my master’s in training and development, and I remember getting introduced to the concept of emotional intelligence.

This whole idea that we absolutely can be in control of our emotions and our thoughts and how we show up, and man, it was really a wake up call.

That’s when I woke up and I realized that I wasn’t really happy being who I was being at that point.

I was far too reactive and I was judgmental and critical of others and myself as a result of that, internally, again, subconsciously, but it was bubbling to the surface that I realized how unhappy I was.

I think when we are unhappy with ourselves, it just goes to the outside world, right?

 It was impacting my daughter who was two, it was impacting my marriage and certainly again, my career because I had that self-doubt within me. So I decided at that point I was changing this, I was stopping this. And it wasn’t just going to be for me and my little family, but also for generations to come.

I think again, some of those stories come from we are who we are because of our upbringing and our experiences, and I love my family, there definitely was some of that judgemental, judging and criticizing, a little bit of that going on. That’s why I took that on and I was parenting the way that I knew how.

I decided to dive headfirst into this inner work and really become a student of emotional intelligence and understand what it was. As a result of that it was how I got introduced to our 3 Vital Questions work. I really learned those tools that were going to help me truly be in control of my thoughts and my destiny and how I wanted to show up, not just for those I loved, but a hundred percent myself.

I’ve worked with a coach and then this, again, is why I am where I am today.

Susan: Interesting, isn’t it? That you just kept on stepping forward just that one step at a time and even though it can be quite scary to embrace that part of you, that was the part that you probably didn’t like, you found something and you did push through and you’re making it happen the way you want it to be.

Merilee: It feels good even to say that out loud. We’re our worst critic and we don’t sometimes celebrate our journey and some of the things we actually have done from a brave and courageous stand point. So instead of running from it, I guess I did face it head-on.

Susan: The words brave and courageous kept coming up as you were just sharing that before, I was thinking, oh God it is so brave, what you were just talking about. So congratulations for having the faith in yourself in the end to do that for yourself and for your future generations. It’s lovely.

Merilee: Thank you.

Susan: From what I’ve witnessed, you daringly interweave your gifts, your experience, strengths, and values, and I’ve seen how, for instance, on LinkedIn you’re very honest and sincere in your posts and about sharing your bad days as much as you do your good days. You come from a space to me where you’re not floating along the surface of life; you’re willing to show what’s underneath that’s important to you.

What’s one piece of advice you’d give to someone starting a business like yours? Any advice that might help them on that path?

Merilee: I think first and foremost, it’s just the awareness of all that you just said. Know that there’s… what we’ve already been talking about, that there are these beliefs and doubts and these things that are really bubbling underneath the surface.

And by the way, it’s part of our human experience. Again, I think we all come along with it in some way, shape, or form. But if we’re unaware of that, it can keep us stuck and drag us down. So what I would say is to, first of all, be aware, but also to trust yourself and your heart and your inner knowing.

If there is something that you believe that you want to do, anything is possible and I really do believe that.

Even if you were like, oh gosh, I know I want to make a change, but I’m not sure what that is, that’s okay too. It’s really being able to meet yourself where you are on your journey and trust that you don’t have to have it figured out.

I think often as business owners, it’s when I have the perfect website; when I have the perfect messaging then I’ll go to … , then I’ll put myself out there. Then I’ll start trying to get clients. This happened to me right before Covid really hit the United States, when I was feeling very off and had been doing a lot of corporate training and development and really realising I wanted to help people at a deeper level, and then Covid hit.

Actually, I was one of the very fortunate trainers to have some work because some of my clients went virtual. I got confirmed work, and I remember crying, I was like, oh my gosh, I don’t want to do this anymore. So I quit, took a leap, had no clients, started a closed Facebook group, started doing live videos, and just started teaching what I knew.

I had no idea where that was going to go, but I knew that I had to start somewhere and, what the cool thing about all of that is, is that informs your next step. You get clarity by just taking that leap of faith. Again, just knowing that the imposter syndrome, the inner critic is always going to come up, but instead of trying to say, oh, I should know better and pushing it down, it’s meeting it and embracing it and accepting it, and listening to its message.

Yes, you’re going to make mistakes, of course you are. But know nothing’s lost with that because that’s when we get to learn, we get to adjust, and that helps us move forward. It may sound much easier when I say that as I talk it. Again, that is why those tools that you and I know specifically from our 3 Vital Questions are so powerful because they really do normalise our human experience, and it allows us to really step into who we are and where we want to go with confidence, with resilience, feeling much lighter and calmer knowing that we don’t have to have it all figured out.

Susan: I was thinking in the last few years since I’ve been involved with The Empowerment Dynamic and now doing the work of not only David Emerald but also Donna Zajonc, that we are doing work that’s going that much more beyond what I first saw as the Dreaded Drama Triangle and TED*. That’s all I saw at first, and obviously that was a beginning at surface level of me, though I could see and understand the models. Now I’m seeing what they’re sharing is the magic of really dropping into it to be present with the uncomfortable stuff as well as the good stuff so it’s not just putting a Band-Aid fix. It’s beautiful work, isn’t it?

Merilee: It is. And I think that’s a hundred percent why I’m not so afraid anymore to be raw and real and post, because I want people to see that. I want people to know, and also a lot of my messaging has been happiness. Be happy. Choose happy.

Years ago, I remember I was going for my masters and I was doing a presentation and somebody gave me feedback that I was too Disney. I remember really internalising that and really trying to tone down my voice. Then one day years later, I was like, wait a minute, that’s who I am. The thing about that is it doesn’t mean that we’re shooting unicorns and rainbows out of our butt. It means that regardless of some of the hardest things that we have to go through, we can choose what we want to think and how we show up.

Susan: This leads to where I was going next, which may touch on the emotional intelligence work so it could cross over. Let’s talk about our mutual passion as trainers in the work of The Empowerment Dynamic and the 3 Vital Questions.

What drew you to that, and what was the biggest aha you had about it that you’re most grateful for?

Merilee: So emotional intelligence, I learned the concept in 2002, leaned into figuring out what that was and started to make some shifts. Then I was mentoring students through the same program that I had gone through for my masters after I had graduated. The TED* work, The Empowerment Dynamic work, had become part of their curriculum.

So that was the first and what I will say is that, and this is the same reaction I get with every single one of my clients, it is such a practical, tactical tool that takes that human experience and brings it to illustration and light for us.

It’s an awareness-building tool, right? Once you get that awareness, it’s hard, if ever, to go backwards. So for me, it was a personal journey. At first, it was very much putting some, I hate to say the word, labels, but it was putting some reasons why I was being reactive, why I was being judgmental, and why I was being a victim and all of those things.

Once we have that awareness then we get to choose what we want to do with it next.

So I think, and every time I teach it, I will say that first and foremost, these are not our identities. When we are triggered and stressed, we’re not going to ourselves. Guess what? We’re going into fight, flight, or freeze. That’s how we’re wired.

It takes the heaviness of that off, and it allows people to start to get curious and ditch the judgment.

Susan: Such amazing conversations can come out of just the model’s simplicity without going into the other layers and tools we share later on through the programs.

I remember learning of the drama triangle, and I saw no alternative back when I first came across it 16 years ago. I remember when I first saw it, thinking God, I know those roles. Oh my gosh. And then I could see them in my office. I could see people playing them and me playing them.

It was a good awareness to have because you could then say, okay, let’s see things as they are and let’s work on making it better. That’s all I could think in my mind at that stage to change how I was operating and to try and keep out of dropping into seeing things worse than they are. Really it was a bit of a challenge.

That’s interesting, so you did have a big aha.

Susan: I think Young Merilee would like that.

What would you like the rest of your life to look like?

Merilee: Really, it’s really about what it is right now. As coaches, obviously, you and I have our 3 Vital Questions and The Empowerment Dynamic work, and there are other tools we learn along the journey. All of these are really helping to raise the consciousness of people.

I’m very passionate about it, especially more now than ever; we need it more than ever to raise the consciousness of our world. I just recently wrote my personal vision statement, and it was… or it is:

As I expand my consciousness, I will teach as many people as I can, the tools and the skills to be in control of their thoughts, emotions, energy, and actions, so that they can live their best and happiest life while here on this earth.

Honestly, that’s really what I want the rest of my life to be about in any shape or form. I will teach as many people as I possibly can these things that I know are life changing.

Susan: Merilee, we are coming close to the end of our half hour session that we usually try to fit in.

What is your go-to mantra or affirmation that gets you through a challenge? Let’s share a little bit about that.

Merilee: I feel like I’m going through it now. I’ve got a lot on my plate. It’s early in the year, and it’s all good things, but it’s just the challenge as a business owner, it’s the classic of how do you have a strategy to grow your business but also work in the business?

 And so I’ve been saying to myself:

I am creative, confident, and resilient, magical, just as I am.

Another thing I will say to myself:

I’m always learning, evolving, and trusting the process and I always get to choose my thoughts and how I show up to myself, others, and my life experience.

Lately, I said the other day to somebody that I should be freaking out more than I am right now because I have a lot on my plate. For some reason, I’m super not. Then I was like, maybe because of all of these amazing tools that I’ve learned, I’m actually putting them into practice.

I say those things, and I will take some time for myself, even in the morning before I get out of bed, to say those, to ground myself and know that whatever comes my way, I will figure it out somehow.

Susan: I like that. It’s interesting that many people will not often go to a mantra or affirmation they’ve made up for themselves. All three of yours were internal that you have come up with.

I know you’ve got a lot on your plate. You’re about to deliver some amazing coursework, but something within us needs us to go into that calm space. The chaos does have to shift away from you. So maybe you’re shifting into that because you have got some amazing ideas and tools that you are going to bring to the people you’re working with.

Merilee: And that’s just it, right? When we get stressed and overwhelmed, it doesn’t allow for that space and energy for that stuff to come to the top and come out. So I’ve been reminding myself that calm, cool and collected is much better than arghhhhh.

Susan: Yes, let the oxygen flow, it’s always a good thing.

Do you have a favourite Sing Out Loud in the car song?

Merilee: That’s a really hard one because there’s a lot. I love music and I love the group, The Cranberries who are from Ireland and their one song Don’t Analyze, is one of my favourites. I have the lyrics here:

Don’t analyze, don’t go that way. Don’t live that way. That would paralyze your evolution.

And so I think that tells you just what we were saying. Don’t over-analyze things; just allow. When I hear that song, it always makes me feel lighter, and it motivates me.

Susan: Okay, so as you sit down at your desk in the morning, that sounds like a really good song. Even if it’s not in the car, you can sing it out loud in the office, maybe.

Merilee: and any Neil Diamond, Abba or Barry Manilow are good ones too. But anyway, I digress.

---

Susan: Merilee, we are finished. Thank you so much for joining me today. I do know what you’re about to launch is massive, and I’m excited for you. To know that’s all coming to fruition. You’ve put so much work into it from what I’ve learned over the last year of getting to meet you at a deeper level.

It’s been a pleasure to have you share your story. I’m looking forward to seeing that magic of yours sprinkle over people’s lives for as long as I get to be your friend.

Merilee: Thank you so much, Susan and I deeply appreciate our friendship and you in getting to know you. I too, like you said, am on a path of having high vibe people in my life as well and you certainly. I believe the universe brings those that we need just in the time that we need them. Even though we are on different continents, I feel very close and connected to you and look forward to the day when we can meet in person. So thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

---

Susan: Listeners, I would like to say I’m forever thankful to my beautiful guests. Merilee for one, and the many who’ve come on the show before her for allowing me to understand them more and share their stories.

And I hope you did take something away from what Merilee shared. Like how she came up with her vision from as early as seven. If you’ve come up with something that you maybe haven’t walked towards or you forgot about along the way, it’s a beautiful thing to go back through your life and check in on what were the things that you said you really wanted. What did you love when you were a child?

Because you can go and pick that back up again and give it a shot. What’s going to happen? All you’ll have done is give it a try. Maybe it’ll put a smile on your face and sprinkle magic on the world for other people as well.

If you would like to join me as a guest to talk about your dreams or your interesting life journey, or how you’ve changed lives, please reach out via my website: www.susandunlop.com.au.

Trust that you are blessed even when you forget that you are blessed.

Take care of yourself.

I look forward to being back soon. Bye for now.