Teri Giannetti, Detroit, Episode 58 (Transcript)

Susan Dunlop: Welcome to Episode 58 of Coffee and Contemplation with Susan. Hello, I’m Susan Dunlop, a professional coach and 3 Vital Questions® certified facilitator living in Noosa, Australia. If this is the first time you’ve joined me. Welcome. And if you’ve been tuned in before, thank you for coming back.

People passionate about what they deliver to the world, intrigue me and make me want to know what, how and why they do what they do.

I choose to surround myself with people who set visions, take risks to do good things in service of others and are kindhearted, purposeful and wise, be that in service or in the books they’ve written, they change lives, including their own. Guests joining me on the Coffee and Contemplation with Susan podcast share their personal stories with vulnerability, for the benefit of others and for themselves, and are people with either or both professional and experiential knowledge of the theme of each episode.

Today’s guest is Teri Giannetti from Detroit in Michigan, whom I will welcome in just a moment.

Teri and I had begun comparing 3 Vital Questions® trainer notes, back and forth across the globe the day we were placed in a breakout session with a fellow trainer the other week. The three of us could have stayed in that breakout room for the whole hour. It was such a comfortable sharing of quality training and years of experience, tools and all our lessons learned.

I’ve really appreciated Teri’s generosity sharing her educator tips with me and some workshop exercises that are about maximising participant engagement, rather than people sitting in a room and listening. Teri’s all about making sure the experience is something that’s going to make the lessons and learning stick with people for long term, because that’s the point of learning, right? Her lessons work!

In our conversation in preparing for today, I snorted in a really unladylike way.

Both of us have experienced the nuns’ wrath in our days of Catholic school circa, for me, 1960s and seventies. Teri declared “Susan, nuns, they teach us how to lie!” I went, “oh God. Yes, didn’t they just!” So that and more will be the line of conversation that Teri and I are going to embrace today.

Welcome Teri. I’m looking forward to our conversation.

Teri Giannetti: Thank you for that great introduction and we really did laugh and have a good time. I’m looking forward to speaking with you today.

Susan Dunlop: It’s going to be a comfortable conversation. You’ve got a lovely wealth of information you’ve shared with me and we’ll see where we can touch on it as we roll through. I was thinking as we were getting online this morning, where to start?

Teri, I’m thinking by the selection of question ideas that I sent through to you and the ones that you chose, that today’s theme really does appear to be a focus on your lifetime career and its origins.

Maybe some of the stories about your mother’s bravery as a young girl in World War II in Italy and her leaving Italy, carrying a wheel of cheese for some reason to New Jersey.

What do you think? Would that be okay to begin along that line?

Teri Giannetti: That would be great. The start of my life. A wheel of cheese.

Susan Dunlop: What would you like to start with? A wheel of cheese or shall we embrace that in our first part where we talk about your whole career being in education?

How about, what was your driving force that fuelled your contribution to children’s education as a teacher, school principal and mentor to teachers?

Teri Giannetti: I believe that it was my experiences in the elementary school, and in my experiences especially in kindergarten. I do remember those experiences. Not all of them obviously, but different fragments. I want to be careful how I say this, the way I was treated, I wasn’t treated terribly in elementary school. They just didn’t know what to do with me because I could not speak English and they didn’t have English as a second language nor bilingual education.

It wasn’t their fault. It was just that they didn’t know what to do with someone, some little kid who did her own thing.

When I went to elementary school, I could not speak English and so all I remember is I figured out how to find clues. If the teacher would say, Teri, I knew I must be doing something wrong.

Here’s a specific example.

The teacher said, Teri and I was over just playing with some toys on the shelf. And I thought, I bet I’m doing something wrong and I turned around and, that was all in Italian, because I didn’t know English, and all the boys and girls were on carpet squares and I was on the other side of the room and I thought, okay, time to move.

I just found my way myself.

Continuing that, they didn’t know what to do to help me out. I was always in the slow group and I would go home and my mother would say, how is school today? And I’d say, oh, it’s fine. But I’m in the stupid group. And she would say, no, you’re not in the stupid group.

Oh yes. She goes, how would you know that you’re in the stupid reading group? And I said, cuz you just…You just know as a kid that you’re in the stupid group, but I really don’t care because what can I do? I can’t even understand English.

And here I am, a little kid saying everybody at school has to learn one thing, how to read.

I have to learn two things, how to read and how to understand English. So I said, I’m in the stupid group.

That must have spread to the teachers because they put me in a slow room at the time. This is just totally unacceptable to use this word, they put me in the retarded room.

Susan Dunlop: Oh my God!

Teri Giannetti: It was fun in there though, because we got to play and you never felt stupid in there.

We did plays and we did all kinds of activities, engaging things like, I believe now, that we need to do with people, schools, adults. So that started, and I didn’t think that through as a kid, but as I got older, I would go back to the regular room and that’s where I was in the stupid group and didn’t know what was going on.

I have other stories to tell you, so I’m going to go forward in time to being a Principal and giving a talk to an entire student body.

The students had a week of You Matter and, trying to make everybody feel special, they wanted the teachers or administrators to give a talk. This was the first time I publicly gave a talk about being in the retarded room.

It was interesting because I told the kids, the reason I became a Principal and a Teacher was because I wanted to treat kids the way that I think kids should be treated and not make them feel stupid. I talked through that with them, and then I realised that I also didn’t want anybody to be a student in my school where they felt lost and didn’t have what I call a spine for some reason.

I was very careful how I said that to the kids so that nobody was hurt.

For some reason, I did have a spine.

What about all the kids who didn’t have the strength? I have no idea where I got the strength, but other kids didn’t have the strength to say I’m not going to be in the retarded room. I actually made a plan at the age of eight to get out and it worked.

There are kids in the school that don’t have the strength to stand up when they’re younger.

Susan Dunlop: We are all humans.

It’s interesting. As an aside, Tom and I had a conversation about that just this morning, we were having coffee at the river and I was saying it’s funny how you can remember things when someone says something like that, putting you into that feeling of feeling stupid. It’s coming from them. It’s not about you, isn’t it?

So you said it’s not like you had a bad experience in elementary school, as far as you felt, holistically, but it’s those moments of one other human being saying something that can impact your life.

Teri Giannetti: And I didn’t want to be that human being.

I can remember if I look back, there’s one student that I think I didn’t make the right decision with. It doesn’t matter what it is. After all these years, I still need to forgive myself for that because that’s a pretty good track record, if you feel like you only maybe lost one, two kids along the way, I didn’t reach all of them, but I didn’t hurt a child, even when I suspended them.

Susan Dunlop: You did it with kindness.

So where you said, I don’t know where that courage came from, you’re from Italian heritage.

Were you born in Italy or in the US?

Teri Giannetti: I was born in New Jersey. New Jersey.

My mother had come over from Italy. Her dream was to find the streets paved with gold, She’d lived in a village, we have an old home there, 1649. I know she really had a tough upbringing, not having a bathroom in the house or not having heating, just to fireplace, et cetera, et cetera. We all have stories like that, but she was determined and maybe I got some of my determination from her.

She came over with her brother and somebody in Italy told her to take a wheel of cheese to these friends in New Jersey.

Now you have to remember, she just came out of World War II. She doesn’t know English. She doesn’t have a job in New Jersey. They have a job in Detroit at a factory, but they have to stop in on the east coast and she doesn’t know any of that.

She’s got to find this family. They did. They found the family, and gave them the wheel of cheese. They said come on in and have dinner and they stayed the night. In the morning her brother said, it’s time to go to Detroit. And she said, I’m staying here. An argument ensued and she stayed and he left and then the people’s son, the couple that got the cheese, they ended up being my grandparents, and she married my father.

So I always think I came because of a wheel of cheese.

Susan Dunlop: Just listening to that very short journey of what she did in terms of determination. You did the same thing. You did do the same thing. You decided what you wanted and where am I going to fit in?

Teri Giannetti: I’m just figuring that out!

Susan Dunlop: And you weren’t gonna accept less than what you wanted.

Teri Giannetti: Thank you for helping me get another aha. I get the determination from her. She’s a tough lady.

Susan Dunlop: You did tell me that story about the Gestapo even before she came, that was oh, a goosebump story, she had such courage!

Teri Giannetti: My gosh, I’m not sure I would’ve had that courage.

The Gestapo went to her home and asked for her brother. The same brother that she came over with, my other uncle, and they put a gun to her head and said where is your brother? We want him because he can speak German and Italian. He speaks in numerous languages and we need a translator.

 If you knew our house there, it’s a skinny house, many levels. He was in the house and he was hiding and my mother told the Gestapo, he’s not here now. To me, that took courage because if they had found him, obviously they didn’t, she would’ve been shot I’m sure and I wouldn’t be here talking to you.

It’s a quick decision. That to me was very courageous and took a lot of guts.

Susan Dunlop: What amazing origins. I imagine you’ve got a lot more stories we could cover. We could do a whole book on it! Where I thought we might go next: okay, so you are a Principal. Did you teach for a long time before you became a Principal?

Teri Giannetti: I taught then I had an opportunity to get some training in being a consultant and I was going to go back and be a Teacher and reading consultant. One thing led to another and I ended up as an elementary Principal and I didn’t know what to do.

I had the degree, but I didn’t have the experience. I remember I thought, what do I do now?

I got to the school and nobody taught me. I went outside and waited for the kids to get off the bus and said good morning to them all, and then greeted the teachers, and then they all went to class.

I thought now what do I do?

So I thought, and this became something they were used to me doing, not every morning, but I went around and I opened the door and I said, Hi, good morning, I’m Teri Giannetti. I’m your new principal. But every day I would come with a different message or most days so it became my signature was to say good morning to everybody.

I really didn’t know what I was doing. All I knew was I wanted it to be right for kids. To feel they were welcome and greeted and mattered. It’s all about relationships. You need to know how to teach. You need to know the curriculum. You need to be strong in what you do as a Teacher, and as a Principal, you need to be a leader.

When push comes to shove, it’s all about relationships. A kid will walk, go to the wall for you, if he or she, or they think you are in their corner.

Susan Dunlop: I love it. I love it. I can see too then obviously the connection we’ll talk about possibly, how you’ve moved through to be embracing the 3 Vital Questions® and TED*®, that are such powerful tools to use in relationships and communicating in a more healthy way in your life and at work and at school.

So what are we going to talk about now?

What’s one thing that people you work with wouldn’t guess about you?

Teri Giannetti: Okay. They know that I always have a story and it’s always funny or that I will make it funny if it’s not funny. I make sure that it turns out to be fine. Funny. It’s just the way my life happens.

I guess I’ll tell you the story about when we were in Africa and we were at a conference because we were living overseas for six years in the American schools in the Middle East. We were at a conference and in a big room in a hotel, the auditorium, and they were about to start and I forgot my notebook upstairs.

I was with a friend and my husband, and I said, I’ll go upstairs. I’ll be right back. Went to the room, came back and got in an elevator. The elevator opened and in comes this real petite older woman. She had a medallion on and it was of Africa and I had been looking all over Egypt for this medallion and I wanted it.

So without even thinking, I grabbed her necklace and then I said, oh, where did you get that? I love it and she just backed up. She backed away. She said here in Nairobi and so I said, oh.

I realised that maybe I came on a little bit too strong. I thought maybe I’ll ease things over so I said, so don’t you just love Africa? Okay. Now that question is significant because you see, she said yes. And then she got off the elevator. I thought, okay. Not a very friendly person. She went to the left. I went to the right. Maybe I scared her, and I went to sit down and I told my husband and friend, and then they introduced the key speaker. You can guess! Yes, it was the woman on the elevator and it was Jane Goodall.

I wouldn’t say that she’s the kind of person that scares easily, but I did frighten her. My husband told me, way to go. You met and then scared Jane Goodall.

I will never forget that as long as I live! They should have taken a picture of me when she came on stage and I went, oh, you must be kidding, but by the way, I did find the medallion in Nairobi!

Susan Dunlop: Had she gathered herself by the time she got on the stage.

Teri Giannetti: She did. You would’ve never known that she had been accosted in the elevator.

Susan Dunlop: And fairly good chance that she does love Africa?

Teri Giannetti: Fairly good. Yes. What was your first clue?

One of the things that I love to do, because these things do happen, I don’t plan them, is to tell stories. So for teachers and kids to get them to engage is to tell stories. It makes it real. It brings learning alive. I can see kids now. I never told them that story, but I can see kids saying who’s Jane Goodall? Tell us more about her da, da, dah.

It’s real. They know the story’s real. It’s not made up and what a wonderful way to teach.

Susan Dunlop: I was visualising everything that you were just sharing then, that you walked out of the big room and then you went up the lift and you accosted Jane Goodall.

Teri Giannetti: Oh, if she ever hears this podcast, I’m sure she’s going to say yeah, I remember that lady. I can’t remember her face but she scared the heck out of me!

Susan Dunlop: Teri, how are you leveraging your decades of experience now and your knowledge and wisdom in the practice that you’ve got, which is called Synchronicity Consultancy Partnership?

Teri Giannetti: Judy Jubas and I have started this company. You don’t need to know, it would be boring to tell you every detail, how we got here, but Judy and I both have a passion to reach kids and adults too, to understand your anxiety and to make choices, to try to alleviate some of it.

For example, we have taught this to kids about the brain when you are nervous and you can’t get your breath, you end up forgetting the material that you studied so hard because the front lobe goes offline and you forget everything you studied. So that’s just one key that we share with kids.

And we also do the workshops with adults because we all have anxiety. I guess the most important thing to Judy and myself is we use the symbol of the keys. The keys are on a key ring and we are there as presenters. Not because we know it all, not at all, but because we’ve researched, we’ve used it ourselves and we’ve studied.

Now we’re going to give you a bunch of keys and when you’re anxious you try to find that key ring on the key ring, the key that will help you unlock the door to help you with that particular anxiety.

Judy does a great job telling the group at the beginning that no matter what, not every key is going to work every time and every situation.

And sometimes you can’t find any keys and you’re ready to just cry and that’s okay. So what we don’t want you to do is to give up, always believe in your heart. If you leave this workshop, knowing that in your heart, as long as you have the passion to look for the key, that it will unlock that anxiety, frustration for you, that door, then you can overcome it.

Even if you have to call somebody and say, I’m feeling lost. You hear the statistics about kids and adults too committing suicide. And I guess, we’re not psychologists, we’re not trained psychologists, coaches yes, and we want to make sure that we give you the hope that one key somewhere out there will help you.

That’s it. And here’s 20 of them or 30 of them that you can pick from and that is the crux of our training.

Susan Dunlop: I love that because I’m quite visual so even when you are talking about sets of keys, my mind just ran through those little key sets that you give to babies that they chomp on. Maybe three keys and I thought, gosh, you might actually need a whole really big ring of keys because it’s okay, there’s going to be another thing that you can try. It’s not that you’ve got a limitation of keys that you can visualise.

Teri Giannetti: That’s right. And you don’t have to remember everything.

In fact, this just happened two days ago, I sent Judy a text and I said, none of the keys are working and she called me and we talked through it. None of them are working. I just can’t seem to find it. I was having a hard time yada, yada, yada. Now the good part about that is if you tell a group of people, kids, teachers, or other groups of adults, parents, if you tell them that story, they realise you’re not a guru that knows how to do everything.

And then they don’t have to feel badly about not being successful because we tell them we aren’t all the time successful. We have to forgive ourselves.

Susan Dunlop: Like the beginner’s mindset that we talk about in 3VQ®. That it’s okay for us all to come together, as we are mutually human beings and we don’t have to pretend that we know it all.

Teri Giannetti: Yes that’s right.

Susan Dunlop: Synchronicity Consultancy, where is your audience? Who are you working with? I know you’re talking about the type of people, but where are you working with them in the States or elsewhere?

Teri Giannetti: Right now we hope to be face to face because we’ve been doing zoom. The summer is quiet because the teachers and kids aren’t around, we can’t gather them. They’re at camp they’re here, they’re all over.

We’ve geared up and we’re doing a lot of conversations with the schools and with special ed group parents and different groups that we’re networking with. We don’t want to do this full time, all the time. We just want to reach some people and feel good about what we’re doing.

So we’re trying to get into some organisations here in our area, and we’re excited when you said that we were going to do a podcast.

Judy and I would be more than happy to do zoom workshops anywhere.

Susan Dunlop: Wow, yes that would be beneficial to even some of my clients that we can get on the screen together. It’d be great.

Teri, have you ever dreamed of doing something important to you, but your inner critic stopped you?

Maybe can we talk about a dream and what got in the way? Because I think a lot of us over these last few years may have experienced the same.

Teri Giannetti: Yes, because Judy and I have had our own inner voices that tell us that we can’t do it and the more research we did about the voices, we believe that everyone has these voices that tell you the negative side.

I did some studying of Karl Yung because the word synchronicity, he coined that word and he also talked about when you have… he talked about depression, but we took it farther and said, if, when you have a voice talking to you telling you can’t make your dream that instead of fighting them… and sometimes you need to tell your voice enough, I’m busy, I’m starting the workshop. I don’t wanna hear it, but there are other times when maybe personifying them, the voice, having them sit next to you. That’s what Karl Yung says and to ask them questions because you might find out why is this voice keeping on coming back all the time. Maybe they have something to tell you.

I have found that’s what finally helped me this week.

That was the key I finally found. What are you trying to tell me and just take a few breaths. Take three breaths and listen to the voice.

Has it stopped me? To be honest, no, it has not.

I don’t like to fly, so I’ve been hypnotised to get over my fear and I haven’t let it stop me.

The only thing that has ever stopped me is Covid.

Susan Dunlop: Oh, really?

Teri Giannetti: Yes really, and my husband is surprised. So I finally listened to the voice of fear and the fear told me that I cannot listen and be bombarded with news. The news did a number on my head, but it wasn’t the news doing a number. I allowed them to. So now they’re talking about monkeypox and this and that, and another virus. I just say, Nope, you’re not doing it to me again. I’m still working through it, to get through the rest of my Covid fear and now that I’ve found a fear or a voice that has stopped me from being normal, I can understand how the clients or the people in my workshop feel when you’re so scared that it stops you, but I’m telling that voice, thank you for sharing. Thank you for telling me. Thank you for talking to me.

It’s in my control, whether I want that fear there or not. That just happened lately.

Susan Dunlop: Okay.

I know that so many people are signing up for mental health programs at the moment to get through what we’ve just experienced. It’s quite an extraordinary time.

Teri Giannetti: Isn’t it scary? It’s scary that can happen to the world.

Susan Dunlop: I remember when they were first telling us about Covid, and that we knew it was overseas, but I remember a doctor friend said it’s coming. I just thought for god sake, it’s not going to come to Australia. It’s been really interesting to watch from an outsider, you know when you can do that third-person observation, and just watch what’s going on, I try to look at Covid from that way. So I can’t get caught in my fear. I have to go out there.

Teri Giannetti: Good for you.

Susan Dunlop: I ask what is it I’m seeing? Because I was getting caught. My breath got taken away. People here, wow, having to close their businesses. It was insane for me to be seeing that happening.

Teri Giannetti: Yes. And I don’t want anybody to think that I’m discounting how serious Covid was before the vaccines, etcetera and I am not an anti-vaxxer, just the opposite, but to see that voice of fear take my life over is unacceptable. I have this much left of my life or this much, I don’t know, but I am not going to let that happen to me again.

Susan Dunlop: No. I’ve got a feeling you’re going to live your life fully from what I’ve heard from your travel experiences.

So how about we move on to the nuns. We’ve got the nuns and then we’re very close to the end. We’re going to then finish off with your sing-out loud song, and a bit of a mantra to close out.

We reminisced on our mutual experience of being raised in the Catholic faith, whether we embraced it or not, or whether our families embraced it or not.

I think I was sharing what it was like in my experience. Basically it was a win-lose situation a lot of days and you had to work out how to do a win-win with a nun! They had their wooden ruler that had the metal strip down the side!

Teri Giannetti: Yes I remember that.

Susan Dunlop: And that was acceptable.

Teri, you said nuns taught us how to lie. So how about you give us some, a bit of fun, and talk about some of the things that you could read in a nun, so you could change it to your benefit.

Teri Giannetti: Okay. I will, and I’m going to start by saying that I would go to the wall to fight for anybody to have the right to practice their own faith.

I grew up Catholic. We lived in Saudi Arabia for six years, and then I went and worked in an Orthodox Jewish school. So I feel like I can go to the UN next, but I respect all religions.

However, my experience has been… I was going to be, I don’t think you know this Susan, I told my mom I was gonna be a nun when I was in elementary school and she laughed. She said, I’d never make it.

I didn’t understand because I was very religious and then I get to high school and 10th grade, the first day, the nun calls me down to the office, Teri Giannetti to the office. Okay. I’d never in a public school been called down to the office. I was a pretty good kid. And so I get to the office and I don’t need to go through why she lambasted because my mom had changed the uniform and she asked me, do you want me to call your mother and tell her she’s defamed the uniform you have, or should you? And I thought about it, I said I think you should call her because, I wasn’t gonna get into that! I’m there and I learned how to play the game.

So here’s a good kid that I get called again, Teri Giannetti to the office and that was the next year. And so I… I just had an aha, just like when I was in kindergarten, I must be doing something wrong. I wonder what it is this time.

I went to the office and she said makeup, makeup is not acceptable and she says, you have dark circles under your eyes. I knew it was eyeliner. So she taught me how to lie. I looked at her and I said, oh, that sister, oh no. I’ve been studying so hard. That’s the circles under my eyes. She went. Oh, okay. Okay. And I left, I thought, okay, this nun just taught me how to lie.

I couldn’t believe it, that’s not what you should learn from your religion. When I got to college, I re-centered my core values, that’s not who I am now, but they did it. I had to learn how to adapt and play their game.

Susan Dunlop: What interested me when we had our chat the other week was you said that your mission as a principal was to find that balance in the middle and that probably contributed towards that.

Teri Giannetti: Mm-hmm

Susan Dunlop: That as a Principal you were trying to be the mentor, of being balanced and centered. So maybe we’ll finish off with that.

What did that mean to be balanced in the middle?

Teri Giannetti: I used to tell my teachers:

You gotta love your kids like they’re your kids. You’re the parent, you love your kids and you love your classroom kids. You’re not parenting them, but you should love them like you love your kids. And at the same time, just like your own kids, you should be able to be strict with them and tell them this was a choice that wasn’t good and this is the consequence. There’s a balance of love and consequence and bringing it together in the middle. And we forget that sometimes.

Susan Dunlop: That’s a very beautiful way to end that part of our chat. Thank you.

Two things that I don’t know about you is what’s your favourite sing out loud song that you sing in the car?

Teri Giannetti: Oh, that’s a good question. The one that’s going through now, I don’t know I’m not a very good singer – Dancing in the Streets by Martha Reeves.

Susan Dunlop: Yes. Yes. That’s a good one.

Okay. And your go to mantra or affirmation to get you through a challenge?

Teri Giannetti: Feelings just are. They’re not good. They’re not bad. Always talking to my voice and telling it to be either quiet, please be quiet or tell me what I need to know. But right now, leave me alone.

Susan Dunlop: Oh, that is a unique one, is that your own?

Teri Giannetti: I made that up. It helps me.

Susan Dunlop: That’s very beautiful too.

We’ve come to the end, Teri.

Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been a pleasure to get to understand the origins that fueled your passion for education and your plans for Synchronicity Consulting.

Congratulations too, for delivering your gift of education, to what must be thousands of young people you’ve taught and the teachers you’ve mentored.

Just thinking about all the communities you’ve worked in, both in the US and abroad, what an enormous ripple effect of positivity and change for the good that you have had and are still making or contributing to them and to the world.

Teri Giannetti: Thank you, Susan. I’ll end by saying that makes me feel wonderful. Because ever since I was a little kid and even when my husband and I got married, I said, I want to, and I need to, change the world. And as I’ve looked back I said, I didn’t change the world. And he said to me, yes, you did one person at a time.

Susan Dunlop: For sure!

Teri Giannetti: But what you said, that touched my heart.

Susan Dunlop: That’s good. I’m glad. I just feel like you look at a teacher, and at what your mission has been, and I think WOW! By talking to that one child, the impact on even that child’s siblings and on their family, and then on their future generations, it can only do good to come across the way you have.

Thank you, listeners.

Teri’s story made me reflect on Michelle Obama’s words:

When we share our stories, we are reminded of the humanity in each other. when we take the time to understand each other stories, we become more forgiving, more empathetic and more inclusive.

Teri and I embraced the relaxed sharing of stories these past few weeks interested to understand each other a little more as global friends and as peers in bringing stories into the work we both do as global 3 Vital Questions® trainers with The Center for The Empowerment Dynamic in the States.

The transcript of today’s conversation will be shared on my website as usual within coming days and via my LinkedIn profile. So if you’re a person who likes to read an article versus only just listening to podcast, that will be there.

I’m forever grateful for the people who come and allow me to understand them more and to share their stories. I learn from each interaction I have with the people who’ve been on the show.

If you would like to join me as a guest to talk about your dreams, your interesting life journey, or how you’ve changed lives, please reach out and chat.

You use this link to my contact form: www.susandunlop.com.au.

Trust that you are blessed, even when you forget that you are blessed.

Take care of yourself and I look forward to being back soon.

Bye for now.

Susan Dunlop